Matador/Marquis

Evening. I can't answer your query but I also have a version of your machine. I believe I'm in possession of pathfinder which differs most obviously in it's lack of front roller with two wheels in it's place. I'd be interested to know about compatibility of the two machines as mine is complete and should run, once time allows me to give it some attention. Feel free to fire up some pictures. I'd found some dating information that I'll hunt put and post for you. Regards. Cameron

I've a workshop manual available as well if it's any use to you. 

I'm a bit confused by your reference to the cylinder (cutting?) clutch as only the Matador had one. Are you by any chance referring to the landroll or traction clutch? Fairly sure that the Matador landroll clutch, while looking the same, is in fact larger than the Marquis. 

Let’s have some images of the offending components.

Has your machine got a JAP or a MAG engine?

Never mind a 'bit' confused, I am totally confused, there are many differences between a Matador and a Marquis, but the main one is a difference of cutting width, Marquis's came in 18 & 20 inch widths and Matador's were 24 & 28 inch wide. The Matadors were also heavier built machines than the Marquis's and they had only a landroll clutch (which was bigger than the Marquis), it didn't have a cutter clutch, this was only fitted to the Auto-Certes to allow transport between golf greens.

As Wristpin says, a few images should clear up just what the machine is.

https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/forum/adding-images

To be clear    the clutch assembly  driven plate with a sprocket drive of 44 teeth chain  driving the land roller  and also  a chain drive  from the clutch inner  hub also chain linked to the cutting cylinder

 On the driven side of the cutting cylinder is a dog sprocket  thing  mechanically operated by a lever through the top pf the frame so in effect the Land roller and the cutting cylinder  operations are independent of each other for various reasons I imagine

Engine is a J.A.P.  4/3  So possibly and likely  not a Matador   Again  confusion all down to losing the information on the frame

 And finally  still trying to upload the images

    Thanks and regards         Dave  

                                                             Stirling

I’m fairly sure that you are describing a Matador as the Marquis never had a clutch on the cutting cylinder but I find your description of the chains a bit confusing.

A Matador has two chains. One goes around a sprocket on the top shaft from the centrifugal clutch, down to the sprocket on the cutting cylinder then round the big chainwheel on the traction clutch and back to the top sprocket. The second chain goes from the back of the traction clutch to the landroll.

The sprocket on the cutting cylinder can either be engaged to the cylinder for mowing or disengaged for travelling from site to site.

l thought that I had a complete Matador traction clutch but it seems that I left it behind at my old business when I retired but I do have have a couple for a Marquis and I have parts books foe several generations of Matador and Marquises .

Thanks for your posting assist everybody  Best I can do for now howeve

And..... :Sincere thanks for your offer of the manual maybe ahold fire though meantime   thankyou. again!

This is from the ops manual and shows the chain layout - a bit mor informative than the pars lists that that dont show everything on one page.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wd0gzl54dvgdpfo/Ransomes%20Matador%20Ops%20Ma…

This one has a MAG engine but chassis wise is similar to yours.  One point worth noting is that Ransomes of that era should always be oiled, not greased. 

EDIT. Your image shows a chainwheel with multiple round Ferodo inserts (I thought they would be corks but the book says Ferodo!) . That makes it a Mk1 Matador , the later marks had single circular  row of rectangular ones.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bscpqkd6o2erhz9/Ransoms%20Matador%20Mk1%20lan…;

Sincere thanks Wristpin for your qui k response this evening looks like  I need a matador  clutch??

The thing is the friction dowals not quite on the  metal yet and won't be doing much likely.  Bit of a disappointment but another story

The only thing short is a set of springs

I have an engine number and actually a seat number or at least a plate with l believe a number so we will see what we shall see

PS exactly the same lub requirements for the crawler running gear and reduction gears  ep 80  in these if I remember

PS exactly the same lub requirements for the crawler running gear and reduction gears  ep 80  in these if I remember

Would you be talking track pumps etc  - ex Caterpillar man here!

Back to mowers. The chain wheel for the Mk2 onwards is still listed LMAY 511 £407.69 +vat!!!!

The springs, 3 inner and three outer , GSG2240 PF and GSF2240 DF Now 461000497, I think.

Only DF now listed at a "very reasonable" £5.02 +vat.

Think that you need to find a "breaker"  . Three people come to mind Martyn Channer, Upson Mowers and Jon Cruse at the Hailsham Mower Centre.  If you want to explore the new spring route, try Bartrams at Ipswich .

If you want to explore the possibility of new friction material for your chain wheel there are various firms offering that service to the vintage motorcycle brigade.

Did this last night late on a tablet..    bad idea   trying to remember what I wrote

 Actually  since the mower is unlikely to be doing any serious work I might get away for a bit with the existing  inserts they are not quite in contact with the metal and a may be a skif of  on the laithe might steal something back meantime.

   The only thing I am short are the springs  I was in the belief  that there were only  3  in the set but since  your sent me yours it would appear to be double ,

 I do have two heavier  , what actually look like inner springs  which I was in the belief was for something else how ever only 2  ,, odd   however I have some relief with your last  so hopefully  I might be fortunate with new set ?

    The seat is a type A , and engine number    4.3.0.   83142/40

 Apologies for the continued confusion however it seems you have the right idea. I am only working from memory and guestimation meantime you understand:)?

 Re  Caterpillar   

 Its the thing sitting at the back of the seat  got it as a vandalised burnt out wreck 

 Just about all  the running gear on all of these are oil. They are only dinky     Jap engine  , some had sturmy archer and the last had a diesel    sure was sachs  stopped production  1965 after Kubuto arrived you must know them? Not Kubuto …MG

   Tracks    6" square and rubber linked  (  Roadless Traction supplied) they are on two weight carrying  rollers 7" diameter .   axled and  phosphor bronze  bush.

 Track pumps   sounds heavy stuff    don’t know much about caterpillar  only D2 ,, once common at the rallies

 I used to visit the Caterpillar workshops in Perth    Caledonian Tractors,   now Finning   we did contract legal inspections on there trucks   and workshop  equipped Transits   Happy days

   Did you ever come across  Ian Beverley  he worked with                  Cat and had a big collection   forget where he was at   Outside Dundee  area if I recall

  Thanks again for your Stuff     Looks promising

Just a thought Has anybody ever used wooden doweling for the chain clutch land roller clutch. B&Q actually carry hard wood 12mm ,,fits real snug I'll try any thing at least once Easy cut precise on the mini bandsaw  The thing is right stuff seems scarce 

I don't really have a clue what you are trying to archive, but if a metal dowel was originally intended then any "wood" is ill advised as a replacement 

you can get 12mm round bar from anywhere including B&Q I would think

Cant ever recall coming across a metal to metal contact in any clutch? However I will stand corrected

  These are actually ferodo and some  were or are cork as has been suggested further up anyhow been around and no success non replies not withstanding despite a promise to" not at work today will  call back tomorrow"

 So as needs must sometime something radical worth a shot only something to grip needed for light duty, even might learn something  even positive

 Also B&Q do no do round metal bar something of a specialist thing.  steel stock holder. engineering workshop possibly or even the Internet

And finally is there an alternative spelling for "archive" ? could it be achieve  perhaps:))?

Wood might work after a fashion,  but.....!

These people don't show any round buttons but must be worth an ask

https://villiersservices.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=8_58_59

https://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/products/re-cork-clutch-re-cork

or, get a cork floor tile and cut some your self.   Maybe make a d.i.y cutter / wad punch by grinding a sharp edge on a bit of pipe ?

My mistake sir, I did not really make out the application of said dowel.

As for my spelling, I can't even blame auto correct.

I will get my coat as they say... all the best with getting this sorted!

NotatallNotatall,,your excused Chistopher!:)) Agebeforebeauty  Actually going to be a long job I think Got 2 MGs  on the go as well 

Good news though however...Found the clutch springs in another box,,,,Yah bhoaysur!!  (Fifespeak).     

PS Hanging on to Wristpins  links  handy man to know!!!!