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Collection, Preservation and Display of Old Lawn Mowers

ATCO 2465 - Newcomer

New to the forums. Can somebody help please.

Have just acquired an ATCO 24 inch cylinder mower 1965 vintage I believe from the model number on the brass plate, 2465 The engine is a Viliiers 4 stroke with the fuel tank mount on the front of the engine(not shown in pics) not between the 2 outrigger on the handles?

Managed to fire it up once yesterday after I found the condenser was missing on the magneto. However, the spark is quite weak. As I'm not sure which engine it has it`s difficult to find a new coil coil.

From the pics can somebody advise please.

 

 

 

Forums

Clive1997 Sun, 14/07/2013

Hello

 

Is it possibly a Tecumseh H50/H60? Not really my area but worthing checking further.

 

 

Regards

Clive

wristpin Sun, 14/07/2013

What you have there is a Villiers C15. The fact that it is painted red suggests that it was an aftermarket C "industrial spec" engine rather than the virtually identical F15 more commonly found on mowers such as the Ransomes Twenty Four,  and was not original equipment.. It is my belief that neither the C15 nor the F15 were never fitted to Atco 24s as original equipment. I will stand corrected but I believe that Atco went from a Villiers Lightweight to the Tecumseh H50.

As far as the lack of condenser goes it should be noted that later F/C15s had a coil with the condenser incorporated/embedded into it so that there would be no external sign of one and that the very last production of both engines had fully electronic ignition  -  no condenser or points.  

A lot of Villiers engines of that era appeared to have fairly weak sparks but they still ran OK so if it starts and runs I wouldn't worry too much but if you do need a new coil Villiers Parts can probably help. In your pics there is no air cleaner fitted  - perhaps you have it, but if not Villiers Parts can probably help with that as well.

http://www.villiersparts.co.uk.

MalcB Mon, 15/07/2013

Thanks very much for extensive reply. It was my feeling that it probably wasn't the orginal engine.

Once I've repaired the "pull start" (rope broke) I'll have another go.

wristpin Tue, 16/07/2013

Whether it is age or the unaccustomed heat or a combination of both but my reply regarding the id of your engine was a bit wide of the mark! Quite surprised that no one has picked me up on it  - perhaps everyone is too polite!

What you have there is an F15 - forget the C, there wasn't a C15. The information regarding coils and condensers  still stands. As for colour it appears that red was the standard "replacement engine" colour but original equipment manufacturers such as Ransomes could order them in "house colours" such as green or yellow.

The F12 and C12 were in fact different engines, each a model in its own right.

Hope that clarifies the situation and that no one has been lead astray!

MalcB Tue, 16/07/2013

Spot on. I eMailed Villiersparts with a pic yesterday and they confirmed ..F15. I'm amazed what parts are still available for these engines even a fuel tank to replace my bent onesmiley


I run a classic mini cooper S and parts are getting scarce for that.

 

Thanks again for your help.

hortimech Tue, 16/07/2013

Sorry Wristpin, but there was a C15, but it was made by Villiers Australia and was what we know as the mk15 OHV engine.

The F12 and F15 where originally BSA engines and Villiers took them over, the last F12s were renamed to A12.

Yes you are right, ransomes got their engines in green, that was part of villiers problems, anybody could get a short production run of engines to their spec, 'want a different crank extension, no problem'. This was unlike B&S, who said 'here is our engine, make your machine fit it', but because they made more engines, they could make them cheaper.

wristpin Tue, 16/07/2013

Well that's me told, never too late to learn! Know what you mean about short production runs versus BS's take it or leave it stance, however if you look at the number of type numbers pertaining to every BS model number it is apparent that they too did/do offer a lot of different builds but they also had the benefit of a huge home market compared with Villiers in the UK. Were the Australian Villiers made by a Villiers subsidiary or made under licence by an Aussie company. 

hortimech Wed, 17/07/2013

Villiers would do very small production runs and were prepared to do virtually anything to the engine,whilst B&S would make an engine for a customer, it was mostly cosmetic changes. The Major components would not be changed e.g. they did a small list of crank extensions and would not entertain a special crank unless the order was very large.

I believe that Villiers australia was a subsidiary of Villiers UK unless anybody knows better. I also believe that there was some tie in with the original Victa 2-stroke engine, but again I am sure that someone will be able to put me right if I am wrong

 

wristpin Sat, 20/07/2013

All interesting stuff but I do take issue with your "small list" of crank extensions. A quick check on the options for the old 5hp 130200 shows twenty different crank extensions were available. However I also remember that if we had an order for an engine with a "non standard" crank we had to fit it ourselves before handing the engine over to the customer. The removed standard crank could either be put into stock or returned to Autocar (later BS UK) for credit.

Also interested in the possibility of a Victa connection - along the same lines my two old Flymo Contractors have Aussie Kirby Lauson 2-stroke engines which were, I believe, Tecumseh/Lauson engines made under licence by Kirby. Also had a couple of old Mountfields with Kirby Lauson 4 stroke engines. Perhaps import tarrifs etc made it advantageous to import from a (then) Commonwealth country rather than from the USA?

 

MalcB Sat, 20/07/2013

It breaths again and .........................it cuts grass!!

Started first time after cleaning fuel tank, fuel line, banjo filter etc. Even managed to disassemble the brass fuel tap and make a new cork sleeve and it doesn't leak. Feeling quite pleased with myselfcheeky