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Collection, Preservation and Display of Old Lawn Mowers

Villiers f12 - oil?

I need to get some oil for my modern Hayter (Brigg & Stratton engine) which needs SAE 30.

I don't (yet...) know what oil my Ransomes with Villiers F12 needs.

A) What type of oil does a Villiers F12 need?

B) Is there any oil which would be OK in both engines?

 

  BugBear

Forums

bugbear Sun, 09/04/2017

I found the F12 manual on this very site; it says Castrol GTX for temps over 9°C.

It also says SAE 20W-50.

If the B&S needs SAE30, that sounds OK to my ignorant brain.

Is it - is 20W-50 a proper SAE30 oil (since 30 falls in the range) ?

 BugBear

wristpin Sun, 09/04/2017

The F12 will have a degree of wear so I would go for the SAE 30. Briggs specify a high detergent 30 so buy that grade as labeled  for lawnmower use etc , not the non detergent 30 sold for classic and vintage cars.

hortimech Sun, 09/04/2017

SAE30 is a single grade oil , 20W50 is a multi-grade oil, best way of thinking is that it works like a 20grade oil when cold and a 50grade oil when hot i.e. it keeps its viscosity when hot.

Just put SAE30 in both, it is what we used in the vast majority of engines until the OHV engines came out, in fact using using too thin an oil can lead to excessive oil consumption.

 

bugbear Mon, 10/04/2017

My thanks to both - just the information I needed.
(aside; my Ransomes Marquis is very much not being "collected"; it's just a very effective machine that I use to cut my lawn!)

 BugBear

wristpin Mon, 10/04/2017

The Marquis with the Villiers / BSA  F12 Sloper engine is a very useable classic and given basic care will " last for ever". For reliability I like to fit a Meco or Nova electronic ignition trigger module to replace the contact breaker points and condenser. 

On the subject of care, Ransomes always specified Oil for the lubrication of bearings etc - not grease. This is particularly important for the rear roller lubricator accessed  via the holes in the roller sections where grease tends to solidify in the passage ways and leads to seizure.

bugbear Tue, 11/04/2017

If anyone has tips (or links to tips) on Ransomes Marquis routine maintainance, it would help reduced my ignorance.

Specific question for the day; I have read the F12 manual (thank you!) and located the oil drain plug on my mower.

It appears that if I open it, the engine will pour 1 paint of old oil forward over the body, and onto the cutting cylinder.

I'm guessing there's a standard technique that avoids this, that everyone but me knows. What is it, please?

EDIT: it appears (judging from the cover pictures of manual for sale on eBay) that I have a mk4. The mk2 and 3 have a different engine.

  BugBear

wristpin Tue, 11/04/2017

Oil spillage.  You can reduce the spillage  by removing the throw plate which leaves a gap above the cylinder into which you can slide something to catch the oil or divert it over the cylinder to a container but those  of us who dabble a lot buy a vacuum pump with a reservoir and suck it out through the filler having placed a pit of wood under the back roller to encourage the oil to run to the front.

The Marquis name has been used for many years and is still in use on a Honda engined machine but if we stick with your chassis design I believe that the last in line used a Briggs engine and that going back one stage and for a long time the Villiers / BSA F12. Then there was a period when Clinton engines were fitted and before that a Villiers, possibly a Mk7. 

wristpin Tue, 11/04/2017

This may help with general maintenance of the chassis . This one has the Clinton engine but as far as lubrication etc goes is near enough the same. The early machines (I cant relate to model numbers) had the "through the hole" lubricators for the back roller sections but relied on a squirt in the right direction for the shaft bearings at either end. Later machines has a lubricator on a stem just below where the clutch push rod entered the chain case and another under the rubber plug in the RH chassis side member.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhxq2m3j8z4pbxp/Ransomes%20Marquis%20owner%27…

wristpin Tue, 11/04/2017

Probably fine for casual use but for more serious stuff we use something like this.

 

 

hillsider Tue, 11/04/2017

Draining oil in this situation can be a messy job but you could make a chute from a plastic can to slip under the drain plug and divert the oil into a can.

Alternatively I have used a Pela oil extractor for many years now and it has been well worth it's cost.

http://www.pelapumps.co.uk/default.aspx?A10PAGE=PL2000

​There is now a lower cost alternative sold by Briggs and Stratton that I have also used that works fairly well.

http://www.mowermagic.co.uk/acatalog/briggs-stratton-oil-removal-pump.h…

 

 

 

 

bugbear Wed, 12/04/2017

The gadgets posted looks great for those doing lots of mower restoration, or with a fleet to maintain, but that;'s not me.

On further reading, the Screwfix syringe model gets terrible reviews (although Kudos to Screwfix for hosting those reviews).

I've found a similar device from Sealey (a brand I've found to be pretty good in general).

Since I'll be doing 2 oil changes a year at most, will this serve me well enough?

http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&pro…

(do I need to do a full change every year, or is there a recommend ratio of "top-up" to "full change"?)

 BugBear

wristpin Wed, 12/04/2017

Start the season with clean oil and top up throughout. When you are sure that you've finished using the machine in the autumn do an oil change and run it for a few minutes and then leave it ready for the next season.

bugbear Sun, 16/04/2017

My hearty thanks to all (especially wristpin)

Ironically, I heard a familiar trundling/clanking sound as I wandered round my local car boot this morning. Somebody had just bought a modern-ish Ransomes Marquis 51 with B&S engine, in immaculate nick (grassbox undented, with full paint) AND user manual.

For £50.00 !!

I paid that for a NOS Amal 379 carb...

   BugBear

wristpin Sun, 16/04/2017

That was a bargain although that series of Marquis were not without their troubles, particularly in the chain and chain tensioning department. The other issue was tha Ransomes used a fairly coarse metric thread for the cylinder to bottom blade adjustment which caused owners a fair amount  of angst in setting up and used to back off in work. We re-engineered a few with With UNF threaded adjusting bolts which solved the problem.

wristpin Sun, 16/04/2017

That was a bargain although that series of Marquis were not without their troubles, particularly in the chain and chain tensioning department. The other issue was tha Ransomes used a fairly coarse metric thread for the cylinder to bottom blade adjustment which caused owners a fair amount  of angst in setting up and used to back off in work. We re-engineered a few with With UNF threaded adjusting bolts which solved the problem.

wristpin Sun, 16/04/2017

That was a bargain although that series of Marquis were not without their troubles, particularly in the chain and chain tensioning department. The other issue was that Ransomes used a fairly coarse metric thread for the cylinder to bottom blade adjustment which caused owners a fair amount  of angst in setting up and used to back off in work. We re-engineered a few with With UNF threaded adjusting bolts which solved the problem.

hortimech Sun, 16/04/2017

I heard you the first time Wristpin ;-)

The adjuster bolts were the least of the problems, if I remember correctly, the biggest problem was the very thin sideplates that bent very easily