Atco Standard Ignition Timing

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TenFour
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Atco Standard Ignition Timing

Morning all,

I am having a bit of trouble finding the timing marks on my circa 1929 Atco Standard 14" Villiers engine.

The flywheel end of the crankshaft has the "saw-cut" as mentioned in the handbook, but I can find no trace of the arrow on the flywheel face as referred to in order to line things up. 

Apologies if I am missing the obvious, but in 30 years of ownership I have never had cause to touch the ignition before !

Also, any tips as to which spark plug these engines prefer please ? Mine is still running on a pre-war Champion No 7 !

Many thanks and kind regards,

Paul.

olcadmin
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Timing has been covered a few

Timing has been covered a few times before on this site, including at the following two discussions.

https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/forum/history-and-technical/technical...

https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/forum/history-and-technical/technical...

One of these references the following which might also provide some insight:

http://www.tanygraig.force9.co.uk/John/vil2strokes.htm

OLC Admin

wristpin
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 but I can find no trace of

 but I can find no trace of the arrow on the flywheel face

Face?  I would say rim. The attached image is from a Villiers Midget. Villiers try to simplify the job by stamping those arrows so that the timing is correct with the piston at Top Dead Centre and the points set between 12 and 15 thou (or what ever is specified for your particular engine) .If you have not got those marks, adjust the points as above , set the piston to TDC and then lower it the specified amount by turning the crank anti clockwise. Then making sure that the crank does not move turn the flywheel to the position where the points just begin to separate. Then pinch up the flywheel nut and gently do a full rotation of the engine and re check the piston position and the points separating. If all is well then tighten the nut firmly.    

TenFour
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Thank you all so much for

Thank you all so much for your help. Really grateful.

Apologies for going over old ground, but I am new here and still finding my way round this wonderful site.

Adrian
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Does your machine have a Mk

Does your machine have a Mk VI-C engine?  There should be a clear arrow stamped on the front of the flywheel close to the rim (annoyingly I don't seem to have a photo) - though having seen how far off the marks on other people's machines are, up to a quarter of the way round the rim from the mark on the crankshaft, I would  go with Wristpin's advice and work out TDC by feel - I don't think the engine will be too fussy with a few eighths of an inch here or there.

A word of advice - it takes more humpty than you'd think to get the flywheel really tight on the taper, it took me a while to twig that mine was slipping which was why I couldn't get it right - and it tends tro backfire if it does that and the thing slips even further!

If I remember I'll have a look at my 18"s (boasting again...) plug tomorrow and let you know what it is.

TenFour
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Many thanks Adrian.

Many thanks Adrian.

Adrian
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Champion D16.

Champion D16.

TenFour
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Thanks for that Adrian. Just

Thanks for that Adrian. Just ordered one .

Adrian
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My pleasure. There's a thread

My pleasure. There's a thread somewhere with my mag rebuild in it that may be helpful as well - though quite where I'm blowed if I can remember. 

 

ETA - here! https://www.oldlawnmowerclub.co.uk/forum/history-and-technical/technical...

TenFour
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Well done Adrian.

Well done Adrian.

Many thanks for the article. Will read carefully.

My flywheel has not yielded any marks on the rim or face . I have taken it off  (carefully marking the position first) and examined under bright bench light. 

Will check points and re-assemble and give it a go shortly .

 

TenFour
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Atco now running sweetly. It

Atco now running sweetly. It didn't seem overly keen on the correct Champion plug, so I fitted Accuspark triple point 18mm one. Fired pretty well first time.

One more query...does anybody have the name of a reliable firm who could repair a small leak / seepage around one end of the fuel tank.... domed part to cylindrical section area.

Many thanks. 

Adrian
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If it works I wouldn't

If it works I wouldn't complain too much! Good to hear it is going - how did you sort the timing in the end?

Unfortunately I can't help with the tank but I'm sure someone here will know.

wristpin
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One more query...does anybody have the name of a reliable firm who could repair a small leak / seepage around one end of the fuel tank.... domed part to cylindrical section area.

Sounds as though it could easily be undertaken by someone handy with a soldering iron.  An alternative may be to treat the interior with a sealant such as “Slosh” sealant. If you do go the sealant route, make sure that you choose one with ethanol  resistance as UK pump fuel will soon be E10.

wristpin
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 It didn't seem overly keen

 It didn't seem overly keen on the correct Champion plug, so I fitted Accuspark triple point 18mm one. Fired pretty well first time.

I’m not totally surprised . You say the “correct” Champion but possibly it would be more correct to say the current equivalent. On a number of occasions I have found that older engines do not perform well on modern plugs; an example being my own Dennis Z. This example is the NGK A6, new out of the box the A6 will fire it up, but stop the engine and try to restart it, either hot or cold and it won’t fire. However, at present it seems OK on a Champion D16 and an assortment of old Lodge and KLG plugs.

A while ago I read a reply on another forum that attributed the issue to the finish on the interior porcelain insulator, glazed or unglazed, but I’ve forgotten which was the one to have.

 

TenFour
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Not surprised about the

Not surprised about the modern equivalent spark plugs.....I found the same with starting issues on my vintage Morris.  Will now leave well alone as it starts virtually first crank and ticks over sweetly.

I sorted the lack of any timing marks by putting the flywheel back where it was (marked by a piece of masking tape!) and checked that the points were beginning to open at the right time by usig a pencil down the plug hole. Guess the timing was good anyway.....it seems to have been a plug issue.

Thanks for all your help.